THE INTERVIEW
You have only fairly recently taken over as Chief of Naval Staff, at a time when the Pakistan Navy is very much in transition. What are your over-riding objectives during your time in office?
"I hope that I will be able to complete everything that I have started, but I realise that is not always possible. I hope to make up the shortages in surface ships, to induct a new batch of P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft, and to induct the weapons and sensors that we are looking for. Some of them have been ordered, while the others are in the process of being ordered. I would also like to see before I leave the helm as CNS, a new submarine type agreed and to hopefully start construction of the first one of those. It is a big canvas, and I hope that I will be able to have fairly substantial input in all these areas before I leave."
With the present government more receptive to the Navy's needs, does the future now look brighter for the PN?
"As I see it, the future is bright. I know this to be true because of our future plans. We are getting full support from the government in fulfiling our core requirements."
Earlier this year the PN decommissioned its four Daphne/Hangor Class submarines. Do you not think this leaves a capability gap?
"Yes, it has left a capabilities and a numbers gap, but, as I indicated earlier, we are very actively pursuing the selection of the next generation of submarine which will hopefully be constructed within the country."
Can you reveal anything about types that you are looking at?
"It would be premature to say at this moment in time, but our position will clear up in a few months' time when we should have arrived at a decision."
There is speculation about new corvettes for the PN; can you expand on this?
"Corvettes are a requirement of the PN, in the sense that we believe larger platforms can be deployed, and should be deployed, for the more complex tasks. The lesser tasks can be carried out by the corvettes because they are smaller, plus they are relatively easier, and cheaper, to operate. So this is the philosophy that we are going by, and hopefully, in due course, although it may not happen quickly, we will select a new type of corvette that is suitable to our requirements. We will also construct it indigenously, through a transfer of technology."
Currently, the F-22P and the ex-Greek Elli Class frigates are eagerly awaited by your Navy. What new capabilities, do you expect them to bring to your force?
"More important than new capabilities is the numbers crunch that we are facing at the present. The six Type 21s that we have are not sufficient for all our training and operational requirements. As you know, our operational requirements have been enhanced by our participation in the Coalition Maritime Campaign Plan, and we are contributing one ship with an embarked helicopter to this operation, and this has put a strain on our limited numbers. So the Elli Class ships will, in the first instance, alleviate some of this pressure that we have as far as fielding a ship for CMCP is concerned. Hopefully with the commissioning into service of these ships, we might be able to enhance our participation with the CMCP."
A force within the PN that is still quite young, and does not have a very high profile, is the PN Marines. What does the future hold for this force?
"The marines are a very important component of the PN. They have a role, a task, and a mission, in the overall framework of the PN and Pakistan. We are at present in the process of equipping this force with the better platforms and better weapons that they need. In this context, we have acquired four hovercraft which are already with us and operating. We have smaller, faster boats that are required for the marines' operations, and we are going to enhance and improve the mobility and firepower of the marines to suitably match their role and tasks in the seaward defence of the South Eastern Coast."
The PN was recently in command of the Coalition counter-terrorist force Combined Task Force 150 (CTF-150) and, building on that experience, are there any areas where you think things could be done differently?
"We are the first non-NATO navy to have assumed command of this force and, hopefully, there will be more slots offered to the PN. I think that it has been a great experience for our ships' crews, and for the officers and men who were in Bahrain commanding the task force. I would also add that everyone has learned from the experience. Our Coalition partners have, I am sure, learned many things from our participation, as we have indeed from participating in the task force."
What is the most significant lesson the PN has learned from participating in CTF-150?
"There were a number of aspects of operations which were new to us. The lessons learned spanned the entire spectrum, ranging from intellectual to operational and to tactical levels. Perhaps the most important one was the realisation of our strengths and capabilities."
In June I spent some time in HMS Illustrious, the British Fleet Flagship when she was attached to CTF-150. One of the main concerns was drugs being smuggled from the Mekran Coast to Yemen and beyond. What has the PN been doing to combat this menace?
"Within the two years that we, the PN, have been participating in CTF-150 we have encountered very few cases of drug smuggling or intercepted drug smuggling, which means that, maybe, the drug smugglers are taking some other route than the one that you are suggesting. With the presence of not only Pakistani ships but also ships of other nationalities, which are part of CTF-150, if there was any large-scale movement of drugs taking place along this route, certainly they would have been intercepted, which has not been the case. Up until now we have tackled additional important tasks, in the form of combating human smuggling, and assisting the victims of that form of trafficking. The smugglers take their money and leave them in the middle of the ocean with nowhere to go. This is what we have been doing, providing assistance to these people. Most of the time they are innocent people who have been taken advantage of by the smugglers who give them hope of a better future."
Pakistan has a long and under-populated coastline that is naturally smuggler friendly. To patrol this area, doesn't the PN patrol craft flotilla need to grow beyond its current level?
"Of course, but it is the Maritime Security Agency (MSA), that needs to be beefed up, not the PN. We are examining ways in which we can boost the facilities and assets of the MSA whose remit it actually is. They need to be provided with the support that will enable them to perform their task better."
One legitimate criticism regarding smuggling that is true of all nations in the CTF-150 region, is that the various agencies of the State - police, coastguard, customs, and navy - do not always work as well together as they perhaps should or could. How is Pakistan doing in this respect?
"We have a system that is functioning and there are responsibilities that are divided. It is the MSA's responsibility to apprehend smugglers, whether they are smuggling drugs, alcohol, people or whatever, and hand them over to the police. Customs officials have a role as well, but this is the system that we have in place and follow at this point in time."
Since 1971 the role of the PN has largely been to police the EEZ and maintain Sea Lines of Communication to the Gulf. Has participation in CTF-150 changed the PN's priorities?
"Not really, but first I will correct you, if I may. It is the MSA that looks after the EEZ.
The PN of course looks after the SLOC. All of our oil and some other commodities come from the Gulf, 95 per cent of our trade is seaborne, and, as long as this state of affairs exists, we will safeguard this commercial activity. We may do things a little bit differently but the core task will remain the same."
Who does Pakistan consider to be its allies at sea?
"As far as the Global War on Terror is concerned, NATO and the US are our allies at the moment in relation to CMCP operations. However, we have a very good professional relationship with the Saudi Arabian Navy, the Omani Navy, and the United Arab Emirates Navy. These are the regional players in this area and we have a very good relationship with them."
What about the Chinese Navy?
"We have a good relationship with the People's Liberation Army Navy. We do conduct operations with them, basic ones, and that is where things stand at the moment."
Are there any wholly new capabilities that you would like to see introduced into the PN?
"That is a difficult question. I suppose we are a four-dimensional force: Surface ships; aircraft; submarines and the Special Service Group of Navy/Marines. We would naturally like to boost these four components. There are always new ways of doing this, via training, induction of new sensors, equipment, and these things have to change in line with modern trends. As for a totally new capability, the only thing that I can think of is perhaps surveillance through maritime Unmanned Air Vehicles. They may be a possibility for the future."
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